The Pension Blueprint podcast video transcript 

Episode 8 Transcript

Celine Chiovitti · James Aw · Fiona Cliff 

Review draft. Dialogue is preserved exactly from the SRT. Speaker assignments use Descript’s automated labels and the supplied speaker corrections, without independent listening. Remaining uncertain exchanges are marked and commented for review. Chapter times use estimated audio playback positions; automated alignment indicates an approximately 0.8-second difference from the SRT, which still needs listening confirmation. 

0:00 Introduction 

Celine: Welcome to the Pension Blueprint. I'm Celine Chiovitti, Chief Pension Officer at OMERS and your host. Living your best life isn't just about planning for retirement. It's about taking care of your physical, mental, financial and social wellbeing every step of the way. So how can small everyday choices help us build a healthier, happier life at every age? Today I'm joined by Dr. James Aw, Chief Medical Officer at OMERS and Fiona Cliff, Manager of OMERS Wellness Centre. Together we'll break down the four quadrants of wellbeing and talk about the small, sustainable habits that make the biggest difference over time. 

Celine: So let's get into it. 

Celine: Hello, Fiona and James, welcome to the Pension Blueprint. 

James: Thank you. 

Fiona: Thank you. 

Celine: I'm excited to have you here and I'm excited to have this conversation about how everyone could start living their best life no matter where they are, whatever age or stage they're in. I'm hoping you could just tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do. 

James: Sure, so I'm the Chief Medical Officer and I've been with OMERS and Oxford since 2019. And I basically help in three lanes. One is employee health for the organization and healthcare investments. So I work with the financial team on healthcare. And the third thing is events like this in terms of social value generation for our great members out there. Any way we can add value in terms of educating or sharing information. 

Celine: Thank you, you're such an asset to the organization and I appreciate you being here. Fiona, how about you? 

Fiona: Well, I am the Wellness Centre Manager at OMERS and I was brought in to help design and run and manage the programming that we have at our onsite wellness centre that supports all the employees. So we have a wide range of best-in-class innovative programs to help employees de-stress, take a break in their day and just to support their wellbeing. 

Celine: Thank you. 

2:07 The Four Foundations of Wellbeing 

Celine: And, James, maybe my first question will be to you. We talk about sort of the four quadrants of living your best life. Can you tell us what those are? 

James: Yeah, so I think physical, mental, financial health and social health. So this interplay between the four quadrants I think is really important. And they kind of change in terms of weighting during the different decades of life, but they're always sort of omnipresent and anchoring really. 

Celine: So we talk so much on this podcast about financial health and preparing for retirement, but why do you think it's equally as important to focus on the other elements? 

James: Yeah, I mean, so my practice, sometimes I'll go through this anecdotal conversation around decades, right? So in the twenties, you're dreaming, I'm gonna be this, I'm gonna be that, you're full of idealism, but really the anxiety is there because you don't know what you don't know, but you've got tons of energy. 

James: In the thirties, you're climbing. So you're sort of building a family, building a career, so you're grinding it out. 

James: And in the forties, all the responsibilities are coming. So you don't really have time, so you have to make some tough choices about what to do, what not to do. And sometimes people get into this pattern of neglect because they neglect their health or they neglect other things to focus on one thing. 

James: And in the fifties, it's a more reflective time, at the beginning, the sort of midlife crisis, people look back, and they might say, gosh, things worked out, I have gratitude, I made some good choices. Or they might say, gosh, things didn't work out, time to pivot. 

James: And in the sixties, I usually tell my patients, that's the happy time because you're not old, you're not young. So enjoy it, do what brings you joy, kind of get on with things. 

James: And in the seventies, it's for different conversations about don't fall, it's about frailty and balance, protect the brain, so kind of the dementias. And then the social stuff. 

James: And then when you hit your eighties, it's kind of like a high five, like we made it, you know, you got some bullet holes, but you know, you made it. And so your body's a survivor. 

James: But along that journey of the social stuff, like all the anchors are always the social support, helps you with resiliency, optimism, growth mindset. 

Celine: I love thinking about how it all fits together and your kind of point of living your life in chapters and so throughout your entire life, you have these four quadrants and you have sort of ebbs and flows throughout. But I'm not sure that people are kind of intentionally thinking about the four pieces. We sort of get so focused on maybe the one issue that we're trying to tackle, but trying to sort of look at balance across the four is interesting. 

Speaker unconfirmed: Yeah, absolutely. 

4:39 Wellness at Work 

Celine: So, Fiona, let's talk. So you have spent your career in corporate and workplace health and wellness. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? 

Fiona: Yeah, so I started my career working for corporate fitness and wellness programs and different companies, providing advice on what sort of programs they should have. 

Fiona: When we first started, of course it was the, do we have a first aid room? Do we have some sort of stretch program? Companies were looking to reduce their insurance costs, their benefits that they're paying for employees, really looking at - can we reduce the cost of the benefits programs? 

Fiona: And then as we started adding gyms and often there was a small couple of treadmills in a basement, and then over time, the programs have really become more holistic. Now as focusing on - all of the quadrants, being mental health, social connection has really become important as part of the wellness centres. 

Celine: I think it's interesting that there, you talk a little bit about the business case for employers around creating these spaces. And so we know it's good for employees, but it's good for employers as well. There's sort of that partnership there. 

Fiona: Yeah, absolutely. If you want to be an employer of choice, then you should have some sort of wellbeing program. And having an onsite wellness centre really sets you aside, and as a great place to work. 

Fiona: If you can have, if employees can have that spot where they can just take a break from work, 15, 20 minutes, half an hour to take a quick break, do some stretches, do some exercise in their day, maybe even go to the meditation room then they really feel better. They feel supported by the workplace and they'll have a better day and be more productive. 

Celine: That's great, thank you. 

6:29 Mental Health and Everyday Habits 

Celine: I wanted to talk a little bit about mental health because that's something that we're all very focused on. And I think the world right now feels very chaotic and a bit overwhelming. We're getting a bit of information overload. And, Dr. Aw, maybe over to you just to sort of talk about how are people feeling? Are they struggling? Are they coping? Are there some mechanisms that we can talk about today? 

James: Yeah, I think we're in uncertain times, stress is at an all-time high level because of geopolitical costs of living. Younger people are kind of delaying when they get married. A lot of them might not even have kids. So there's a lot of things that are happening with AI too, mistrust, misinformation. So I think there's a lot of, kind of an air of uncertainty. 

James: So typically it's been tough anyways, being a teenager and a young adult, dealing with stress in terms of academic pressures, what are we gonna do for living, financial, et cetera. But it's kind of been amplified now because in the world that we're in with this sort of culture of always being on and all these headlines and information. So mental is on the rise, in terms of young people, it's on the rise. 

James: And also, like I was talking about before with this U-curve, so the happiest times when you're young, optimistic, the whole world's ahead of you. And then sort of middle age, now it's changing a little bit - it's more of a J-curve. So they find that even younger people are not as happy as they used to be because they're less optimistic about the future. And then when it used to be happy when you're older, like I was saying, but now that's kind of flattening because people are living longer. 

James: And then there's the day-to-day burnout. So definitely healthcare workers are not immune to burnout. So I usually say to patients, sort of the phases are phase one: you're irritable, finishing people's sentences, not fun to be around, very impatient, road rage. 

James: Phase two is you realize that's socially inappropriate, but you need a release. So self-destructive behaviours, start drinking more, don't go to the gym, bad habits. 

James: And then phase three is emotional detachment. You sort of check out, so you stop caring. You're sort of emotionally not involved, you sort of go through the motions. 

James: It's all human, but if you go through the trajectory of irritability to self-destructive to detachment, then the real deal of burnout is physical and emotional exhaustion together. That's when the bad stuff happens - heart attacks, ulcers, cancer wakes up, depression, anxiety. 

Celine: I think it's, again, lifestyle. And you talk a little bit about lifestyle. Is that like when people come to visit you and I imagine that you want to see people early on before something becomes a problem. And so how do you tell people that like, just think of how you live your day-to-day life, thinking about sort of those four quadrants. What would you advise people to do? 

James: Habits are kind of the key, especially for mental health, because if you get into this crisis response mode, you're always behind the eight ball. So it's all, and if changing behaviour is easy, then we'd all do it. So it's really about setting up these kinds of steady habits. 

James: So I find for mental health prevention, it's all kind of the habits and checking in, having these different routines. My quick tricks are like start strong, start with gratitude. There's a lot of literature about gratitude. 

Speaker unconfirmed: Start with gratitude. 

James: Meditation, mindfulness, a lot of evidence on mindfulness in terms of being present, yoga, deep breathing, these kinds of things. 

James: Get some nature exposure, like kind of detox from all the digital social media stuff. I get out there and hug a tree or walk around barefoot in the grass and do something that makes you sweat. So some kind of an exercise, physical activity, whether it's walking or something, just kind of gets your adrenaline going and kind of helps to start the day properly. 

James: Of course, healthy diet. 

Speaker unconfirmed: Yeah. 

Celine: Okay, I have to ask you - 10,000 steps a day. Is there magic to the 10,000 steps? I mean, I kind of like that that's caught on because it kind of gets us focused, but is there any magic to the 10,000 steps or is it just getting out there? 

Fiona: I've heard that it doesn't have to be exactly 10,000 steps. That was just a number that was - it's fun to say, but definitely what Health Canada recommends is 150 minutes a week of exercise. So that's, you could divide that into five 30-minute bouts of exercise a week. 

Celine: Consistent, get out there. 

James: Yeah, and I've heard the same thing. I've heard like, actually, you probably get the same benefits of 8,000 steps, seven to 8,000. So the concept - 

Celine: That sounds a little bit better. 

James: Yeah, but 10,000 was catchy. It caught on, fantastic. Kind of more of a reflection of where we were in society when we were sitting all the time. So you just kind of get up and move. 

10:59 Living Well in Retirement 

Celine: James, talk to us about what longevity means in the space of retirement, because I know, and I want to, you know, we all want to live to 100 years old, to 106 years old. But again, I imagine there's a muscle that you have to build in order to be able to live well in that space. 

James: So I usually say to my patients that are older, once you've done the other things like financial planning, social networks, et cetera, frailty is the big thing. 

James: So I kind of joke with the patients like, don't fall, but what does that mean? It means that, you know, work on your core exercise, focus on balance, focus on power, focus on natural movement, focus on things that you can see yourself doing in five, 10, 15 years from now. 

James: But the main thing, social network, so work is like where we spend all our time, but when you're out, you need to kind of lean in on the social fitness muscles, because you need to kind of create that sort of infrastructure. And that has huge dividends in terms of quality of life, because if you're genetically predisposed to living long, like in your 80s and 90s, then you've got an immune system advantage. You might have sort of an age benefit in your family history, but loneliness is what kills people. 

Celine: I've seen a lot of research as well that says loneliness is one of the key things that really impacts retirees. And I think so many of us put so much into our work and that becomes part of our identity. So if you think of health, Fiona, what if I don't have access to a workplace wellness centre? How might I integrate some healthy lifestyle choices into my day? 

Fiona: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, everyone can just add a little bit of exercise in the day if they can. I always suggest just starting with a walk, walk outside. Dr. Aw mentioned the importance of getting out in nature, but if you can get out, walk through the park with a dog, with your friend, have some social connection as well, everyone can do that. And really getting your heart rate up, exercising more is really the best thing you can do. 

Fiona: And when we think about it, we have 24 hours in a day, most of us sleep eight hours or less. So you have a whole 16 hours in a day. There's gotta be at least half an hour that you can just set aside to exercise a bit. And even just 10-minute increments, they've found can make a difference. 

Celine: That's made a difference for me. What distinguishes, do you think, a good life from someone who does have regrets? 

James: Yeah, that's a great question. The ones that I see that are happy are the ones that have, well, let's focus on the individual stuff. They've got a good sense of humour. A lot of my patients are in their 90s and 80s. They have a great sense of humour. There's a spirit of joy. They're kind of comfortable in their own skin. They don't take things too seriously. They're resilient. There's always something good that's come out of a bad situation. They're optimistic. That's one. 

James: They don't take things for granted. So they don't ruminate too much. They don't think about the past too much. They don't worry about the future too much. They're really in the moment. 

James: So they always move. They're not sitting. They're putzing around, doing the gardening. They don't, they're cleaning their house. They take pride in their home. They take pride in their apartment. There's pride. It's like, no, no, don't, I'm independent, right? 

James: And they're social. They've invested a lifetime on social relationships. 

Fiona: I have heard a lot about the daily habits and how don't wait for the weekend for something good to happen. Like every day, enjoy something. I love that sense of like, wow, amazing about Namagor. Or just getting a sense of awe like, look at that sunset or look at those beautiful flowers that just opened. Like, really, they say that can bring happiness and joy every day when you notice those amazing things. 

Celine: I've heard, like, right, you wake up in the morning, write something you're grateful for before you go to bed. What were, you know, two or three things that you were grateful for during the day and just try and sort of take a moment. Cause we do take so much for granted. You're just living your life. And sometimes not tons of great things happen in a day, but then when you actually sit back and reflect, there's usually one or two really great things that have happened. 

15:14 The Business Case for Wellness 

Celine: Okay, question for each of you. I'm gonna start with you, Fiona. And if you needed to do your best business case for an employer, considering opening a wellness centre at work and your best plug for an employee who you want to take advantage of it. 

Fiona: Yeah, for sure. So yeah, for an employer, absolutely, it's a business strategy now to have a wellness centre onsite for your employees because you will be known as a top employer. You can retain your best talent. 

Fiona: There are a lot of studies that have shown that for every dollar spent on wellness programs, you get $3 return. And so, you know, it definitely, the business case is there. If you support your employees, then they will really value and want to stay at your workplace. 

Fiona: And as far as the employee, today's employees want to work at a company that supports them, where they can be their best self, where they feel like their managers understand that they need work-life balance. And a lot of employees are willing to leave where they work to work somewhere else if the company doesn't support their wellbeing. 

Fiona: So I think that in today's world where there's a lot of stress and people are trying to manage multiple things and feel time-crunched to be able to fit in a bit of wellness in their day at work makes a big difference. 

Celine: What a great, I mean, to have that opportunity to be able to go and work out or take a moment during your workday sounds like it's a wonderful, wonderful opportunity. So, okay, James. 

James: I was just gonna say, it's a symbol, eh? Of a culture. It's a cultural symbol, like in the world of digital, it's brick and mortar. It's very powerful. Like it's a powerful symbol that the organization, the enterprise cares about, that you're a human being, that social connection's important, and that wellness is complicated, and it's not just one thing. We're listening, and it's real. So it's like a nice symbolic anchor, right? 

James: And it shows a commitment, I think, to an enterprise, to people. As Blake always says, their best asset, right? But I think it's a very powerful, especially in a world now where we're just getting all the headlines and garbage and fake news and you don't know who to trust, symbols kind of matter again. 

Celine: Yeah. 

Fiona: Yeah. 

James: And I think wellness centres kind of like a symbol of commitment from an enterprise. 

Celine: Yeah. 

17:48 Advice for Your 20s 40s and 60s 

Celine: Okay, I want you to think about a 20-year-old listener, a maybe 40-year-old listener, and a 60-year-old listener. So think of sort of three different stages in life. Just one tidbit that they can do to incorporate something from the four quadrants within their life, a practice they could start. 

James: Okay. So the 20-year-old, mental health. 

Celine: Mental health. 

James: Yeah, so it's okay to not be okay. Don't suffer in silence. Reach out, lean in. It's okay, it's gonna get better. 

James: It's gonna get better. 

James: It's gonna get better. 

James: The 40s: focus on what's important. Get your habits in, daily habits. Don't neglect your health or others. Don't regret. 

James: 60s, have fun. Why are you doing that? 

Celine: I love that. 

James: You had your chance, do your career, like no, no, no, you're gonna be 70 soon. Like get going, have fun. All that other stuff, physical, mental health, financial, that's all done, okay? Like don't worry about going from A-minus to A-plus. Like you better be having fun. 

Celine: I love it, I love it. Thank you so much. You're both delightful. Thank you for having this conversation with me. 

Fiona: Thank you for having us. 

James: Thanks for having us, pleasure.