The Pension Blueprint podcast video transcript 

Episode 6: Your pension, our properties and their holistic impact

Celine Chiovitti (VO): Hi, everyone. Welcome back to "The Pension Blueprint." I'm your host, Celine Chiovitti, chief pension officer at OMERS.

In this episode, I sit down with Veronica Maggisano, vice president of development at Oxford Properties. Oxford is the real estate arm of OMERS, operating on a global scale. In her role, Veronica leads transformative real estate projects and is a passionate advocate for building inclusive, innovative cities with the future in mind.

She brings us through some projects dear to her heart, including a 100% carbon-neutral building in Vancouver, and Oxford's Scarborough Town Centre, the first major purpose-built rental development in over a generation, which is creating 1,285 new rental units. The big story here is about how OMERS and Oxford are taking major strides at creating affordable housing—a reality right here in Ontario. And Veronica is on the front line.

Celine Chiovitti: Hello, Veronica. Welcome to "The Pension Blueprint."

Veronica Maggisano: Thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here. It's my first podcast.

Celine: Ooh, well, we're glad that you're breaking it in with us. So excited to have you here and really wanted to talk about Oxford Properties, their connection to OMERS, and then have a conversation about something that I know is top of mind to our members, to Ontarians, which is housing, affordability of housing, lack of housing, and really get some of your comments and your feedback around that.

But let's start with just finding out a little bit about you, about Oxford and your role there, and how does that connect to the OMERS Pension Plan?

Veronica: Yes. Well, it's amazing to be here and to discuss all of the things that you've just outlined. I'm very excited to dive into all of those topics.

The OMERS-Oxford relationship—I guess the first word that comes to my mind is family. As everybody knows, OMERS owns Oxford, and they are our parent company. And so what that really means to me is that they're there to provide stability, they provide capital, they provide reassurance, and sometimes a nudge, I guess, if we need it. (chuckles) But most importantly, I think what is great is that they really provide us with a common purpose. And so at Oxford and OMERS, we're united by our common purpose to pay pensions. And that's the common thread that goes through everything that we do and is something that I think you'll hear a lot about today.

Celine: And I love that we connect everything back to members. And your role is Vice President of Development at Oxford.

Veronica: Yes.

Celine: And so what does that mean? What do you do day to day?

Veronica: So day to day, I get to help to bring some of the big projects that we're going to talk about today to life. And what that means is that everything from the vision of those projects, to getting them entitled or getting the permits to allow us to build them, the design, and then of course, obviously, the financial viability of the project. And, you know, as VP of Development, there's a big team of us at Oxford working on the development business. And we're all working in service of delivering the best projects. And it actually goes even further than that. You would often have heard that we are vertically integrated, and that's one of our advantages at Oxford. And, you know, to deliver one of these big development projects really takes a village. At Oxford, we have everything from asset management, investments, property management, leasing, and it's all the capabilities under one roof that you need to make one of these big projects happen. So it's great.

Celine: And I know you mentioned vertical integration, and I'm hoping you could just break that down for us in a more practical sense—what does that mean?

Veronica: Yes, it sounds complex, but it's not. So vertical integration is really the cornerstone of Oxford's DNA. And what it means is that from top to bottom, in-house at Oxford, we have the capabilities to see through most of any development that comes across our table. So we have development, we have construction teams, we have asset management, we have leasing, we have property management teams. And what happens in a vertical integration environment is that, for example, if I'm thinking of something in a development, I can phone up my colleague who's in construction and say, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing something that has this design or has this layout on a site." And they might say back, "You know what, Veronica? If you just were to tweak it in this way, you're going to save time, you're going to save money, you're going to save schedule." So that's the beauty of it.

From a leasing and an operations perspective, they will always hold us accountable to our customer. So if we are thinking about a great amenity detail, say, 300 meters up in the air in a building versus an amenity space, they're going to challenge us to always choose that amenity space because that's what the customer is going to feel and is going to make an impact on the customer. And so how it looks is a big table with everybody sitting around, and everybody has a voice, and everybody is working together to make the development a reality.

Celine: It speaks to me about why you're able to create the quality that you are, because you have access to all of this knowledge, and you're all really holding each other accountable when you're going into a project.

Veronica: 100%. And it also shows how we're not just in it to build a building, but we're in it to own it for the long term. So when you have an asset that you're holding, you want to make decisions that are guided by that long-term mindset.

Celine: And I know you develop across Ontario, across Canada, across the globe. Can you tell us a few of the iconic assets that our members might not know that they even own?

Veronica: Yeah, it's an incredibly impressive portfolio. So if you're in Canada, iconic assets—the first ones that come to mind for me are things like Yorkdale Mall, Square One, Scarborough Town Centre. Out west, in the hotel world, think Chateau Lake Louise, Banff Springs, Jasper Park Lodge. We also own the Park Hyatt in Toronto. We own a number of office buildings across some of the most major cities in Canada, like The Stack in Vancouver. We own TD Canada Trust in Toronto. We have a robust residential portfolio and also an equally iconic industrial portfolio, like a two-story industrial building in Vancouver, which is 100% leased to Amazon. And then also an incredible development, actually, that just completed, called James Snow Business Park. And that's just Canada. So there's also iconic assets around the world.

Celine: Like, again, I don't think people know that. And so when we're going out and we're shopping at Yorkdale or Square One or Scarborough Town Centre, we're actually putting money back into our pension fund. Isn't that incredible?

Veronica: Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Celine: So what are the fundamentals that you would look at when you decide to take on a project?

Veronica: When we take on any development project, what I would say is that it's a very holistic approach. So from a specific project, we would be looking at, number one, does it meet our strategy? That's the first question that is always asked. And then from there, we're asking questions like: does the design meet customer demand? Are we looking to the future far enough in advance? Are we being innovative? Are we driving and moving the needle in terms of sustainability? What are the financial metrics of the project and is it making economic sense? And that's a very iterative process that we undertake.

And then once we've decided that the project makes sense, then we also have to look at things from a portfolio level, and then also how it fits within the global portfolio as well. So it's very much a top-down, bottom-up approach when we're looking at any project. And that's a very rigorous process in terms of making any decisions as it relates to investing in a development.

Celine: So you really consider all the business factors when it comes to OMERS. And then you also look at what value does it bring from a strategic perspective, and does it really align?

Veronica: Yes.

Celine: And do you work with communities, like when you're actually putting something—when you listed off a name of things that we own, they all really feel, again, iconic, truly Canadian. And I know you invest beyond Canada, but how do you integrate with communities?

Veronica: Community is at the forefront of everything that we do. And that is really driven by the fact that we are long-term investors. So we aren't just interested in building, for example, the best apartment building. We're interested in building apartments where people can put down roots and live there for a long time. And what that means to me, Celine, is that they can have a rich life there. So it's not just about the building, but it's everything else that is around it.

We have a lot of stories and a lot of projects that we are working on that shine a light on our community builds, like the Square One District and others as well in our portfolio, that are a real testament to our work with the community and how we're building that up.

Celine: I go back to your phrasing of Oxford and OMERS—it feels like family, and that's what it really does feel like. I know, you know, we often say at OMERS, "We touch the lives of one out of 11 Ontarians."

Veronica: Yes.

Celine: And you can really see that when you start to play out not just the value we bring to members, but what we bring to local communities and with the investments and the spaces. Like, it's one thing to have it as an investment, but the spaces that we hold to bring community together.

Veronica: Couldn't agree more. And that is one of the wonderful things about working in the development field, because it's tangible. You get to see the benefits, whether it is through the public spaces we create, the art that we bring to the cities, the apartments, the affordable homes—all of it. It is all about building or leaving a better campsite than what we found it. I think development is so tangible in that way, and you can feel it and you can see it in the real estate. So it's very inspirational work to be part of.

Celine: I mean, I can hear it in your voice how you own it. So I think that's great. So let's dive into housing.

Veronica: Okay.

Celine: And I know, I mean, you can't turn on the news or go to a conference or just hear about the fact that we do have an affordability issue across Canada, across Ontario, when it comes to housing, and I would say almost scarcity. How do we get more shovels in the ground? How do we create more affordable housing? Now, you talked a little bit about the fundamentals. Ultimately, as a pension plan, we need to be able to make money out of this in order to pay pensions. But I know that you've also really prioritized helping to solution in this space. Can you tell us what you're thinking about that and maybe some examples of some projects that are underway?

Veronica: Sure. So, absolutely—I can't open a newspaper today without reading headlines on the housing crisis. And so we should be, right? I think society's really asking us all to step up. I can say some of the solutions that I'm seeing come forward in the development space, which are very encouraging, are, one, as we all know, time is money. And so there's been a big focus on making sure that municipalities are working with developers to get shovels in the ground faster. These collaborative, problem-solving mindsets are coming to the table, everybody rowing in the right direction.

There's also a lot of discussion around what are called development charges. And development charges, for everybody to understand, is—you know, there's the hard cost that go into building a building, and then there are the development charges that would go on top of that. We have seen some of the municipalities in which we develop start to cut those to reduce the cost. That, in itself, will reduce the amount of rent that we have to pay, or that a customer has to pay. So that is very, very good.

And then, on Oxford's side, we have been focused on housing for quite some time. In fact, we're very excited to be delivering rental projects this year. We have a project called SIGNAL in Vancouver that is 500 apartments. That will be opening another 1,000 units at Square One District, which is our first phase of that project. We've also launched and put shovels in the ground on 1,300 apartments at Scarborough Town Centre. It's our first phase of our master plan there. It's called STC Brimley. It will deliver 20% of those units as affordable and is just an amazing growth story for Oxford, for the City of Toronto, and for Canada. We intend to continue to do that.

One of the things that I would say about residential—as you said, it has to make money. And we do believe that the income is stable, and then, therefore, that pays pensions for the long term. So it's a very good investment thesis for us. Also, because of who we are, and with OMERS as our parent company, we can deploy at scale. So we have some very big projects on the horizon.

Celine: I think I love that you're taking a multi-stakeholder approach, and it sounds like we are at the table doing all the right things, and you're now starting to sort of see it—like you said, municipalities and others really coming to the table with this let's-solve-a-problem mindset and how do we make it even easier for developers to come in and work together.

Veronica: Yes, it feels like everybody is becoming more solution-focused at the table and working together, and that is exciting for me to see.

Celine: So there's hope for, you know, people like my daughter—

Veronica: There's hope.

Celine: —who's 26 years old, to get out there and potentially, you know, be able to kind of get a place, yeah.

Veronica: Yes, absolutely.

Celine: That's great.

Veronica: Yes.

Celine: You mentioned The Stack, which is a fully carbon-neutral building that I'm sure our listeners would love to hear more about.

Veronica: Yes, and it's really important in the real estate asset class to have carbon neutrality as a focus, because real estate, in general, is a high emitter. But I would say Oxford has always led the way in sustainability, and The Stack is a perfect example of that.

The Stack is the largest, or the tallest, actually, commercial tower in Vancouver. I'll just situate everybody first—downtown Vancouver, next to the water, next to the main shopping street, really well located. The building itself is designed so interestingly in terms of how they've approached the design. I encourage everybody to look it up. It's actually a series of boxes, and they've been twisted in order to maximize solar gain. So they've even taken that consideration in the design.

Amenity set is second to none. They have an amazing rooftop terrace, beautiful public plazas with Indigenous art and public art throughout the building—so really an incredible development. And, as you said, it was also designated to be carbon neutral all the way back in 2017. So the team decided that they were going to pursue carbon neutrality and also LEED Platinum at a time when, actually, there were other buildings also under construction and they didn't pursue those same targets. I think that is very interesting to reflect on. It shows how forward-thinking Oxford is and how important it is that we make decisions today that are going to stand for tomorrow.

And so The Stack is an incredible example of a building that is economically performing well because of all of those attributes that I mentioned. It is attracting top-of-the-market rents, which is great for the pension plan. Environmentally, it is hitting it out of the park. And then, socially, to have the public spaces, the plazas with the public art—there are ping pong tables where people can come and play ping pong. The patio, the rooftop patio, with amazing views, actually is open to the community. I understand that actually, just recently, the PWHL team from Vancouver came to launch their team from the rooftop of The Stack.

Celine: Oh, very cool.

Veronica: And isn't that amazing?

Celine: Yeah.

Veronica: So it's a story of commercial coming together with community, coming together with culture. And that's what's going to create an asset that's going to stand the test of time and be there for the long term for the pension plan.

Celine: You know, you explained it in such a way that we can see the connection to the long-term pension, but I do think everything that you're describing is we're creating spaces for people to come together, which again goes back to family, goes back to community.

Veronica: Yes.

Celine: It's what we're here to do.

Veronica: Yes.

Celine: And what about internationally? You want to talk a little bit about some of your investments internationally?

Veronica: My pleasure to do that. They are very, very exciting. So we own—I'll give you a bit of a snapshot about what the portfolio looks like. In Australia, we have a lot of residential underway. In fact, we just opened the first purpose-built rental apartment ever in Sydney.

Celine: Oh, very great.

Veronica: Which is very exciting. In Europe, we have an iconic asset called Das Center in Berlin. And that is really neat because the team there—there's an entire master plan, but the first phase included taking an old IMAX theater and turning it into this dynamic food hall, with offices above, actually. And those offices are setting market-leading rents. So that's a really cool development.

The other one globally that I would like to shine a light on in Europe is Victoria House. So I have to try to help you visualize this. This is an old insurance building—100 years old, made of stone. Apparently, it used to be shown in "The Crown," so it's seen some big, grand spaces.

Celine: Yeah, I can picture it.

Veronica: You can picture it?

Celine: Yeah.

Veronica: Okay, so our team went in and saw the potential to turn it into a life science medical research building because of the strength and stability of the building. And when you're doing medical research, everything has to be done down to the final detail. So isn't that amazing? That building is under development right now and should be open this year.

And then in the U.S., of course, we have life science in Boston and California. And then also iconic builds like Hudson Yards in New York City, where we're defining neighborhoods. And those are all so exciting.

Celine: Look, I'm just imagining everybody on your team must have this level of excitement, because I hear you talk about the properties and you're just lighting up, which is amazing.

Veronica: Yes.

Celine: So I live not too far from Square One and go to that area a lot—

Veronica: Oh, nice.

Celine: —and I'm always in awe of all the development going on in that space.

Veronica: It's amazing. Yes, Mississauga is an area undergoing such a lot of investment right now. There is transit. The largest hospital in Canada is under construction. It's such a dynamic, diverse city. I think there's something like over 145 languages spoken in Mississauga.

Celine: The diversity across Toronto and Mississauga, you're right.

Veronica: It's amazing. Yeah. And, you know, we happen to own a lot of land in the heart of the city, right in the downtown—130 acres where Square One sits—and we have a lot of land around it. So we saw an opportunity there to be leading a conversation about the future build and what a future city could look like in that location.
And so the Square One District, obviously, it's around Square One, and I'll give you some high-level stats and then we'll break it down. It's an 18-million-square-foot master plan that will deliver over 18,000 residential units and over 10 acres of park, community, and transit infrastructure. That 18 million square feet—it's really hard to visualize what that means. Often what I'll do is I'll break it down even further and say that 18 million square feet is going to be delivered in 48 new buildings.

Celine: Oh, wow.

Veronica: Forty-one of which will be new residential, and then we'll have five commercial life science buildings, and then a transit and a community hub. All of that sits on top of the 2-million-square-foot, thriving Square One Mall that exists there today.

So it's an incredible story. You might think, like, how did you get there? I think that is really interesting to reflect back on the process. Ten to fifteen years ago, we started to see the potential within the mall itself. We invested over $500 million in upgrading the mall, bringing in new food, beverage, and entertainment like The Rec Room, and a new food district with curated food experiences. We brought in a college.

Celine: It's a great mall, yeah.

Veronica: There's an IDEA Mississauga where entrepreneurs can come and exchange ideas. So we start to build community within the mall itself. And while we were doing that and we saw the potential of it, we also started to imagine the potential of the city beyond the walls of the mall. We looked to the infrastructure, which is not always the fun stuff, but it is the necessary stuff—so things like sewer, electricity, transit, water. Now that all of that is in place, we are ready to go vertical on the residential.

Our first phase has opened 1,000 units, and we have about another 5,000 apartment buildings in the entitlement phase.

Celine: It's incredible just to see everything that goes into that type of development, starting with the mall itself and having a vision for how can we really grow this into a hub.

Veronica: Exactly.

Celine: And then, you know, when you talk about transit, and I mean, I see all of that. You see transit coming directly into the mall, and then everything around it. So, like, having that vision. And the other thing that really dawns on me is, again, I go back to we're doing it for our members in order to pay a pension, but at the same time you're solving housing issues, you're creating jobs in communities, you're creating a tax base, and so on and on and on, how it sort of impacts positively the Ontario economy.

Veronica: It impacts the Ontario economy. And then also, with that long-term mindset, it's amazing what happens. So I'll give you a small example of the YMCA.

Celine: Yes.

Veronica: And that is, the YMCA was about to close down in the heart of downtown Mississauga, and we happened to have an old theater box that had sat vacant for over 10 years. If you think about a theater box, this really large floor plates, tall ceiling heights—perfect for a basketball court, not a lot of columns. We saw this potential to bring the YMCA over to Square One. In partnership with the City of Mississauga, we've made that happen. A new YMCA is going to open at Square One in 2027.

But that goes to wanting to live in the Square One District, because now the residents will have the ability to take advantage of all of the extracurriculars and the services that the YMCA has to offer. That is what long-term thinking is—you get to see things that maybe other people don't see potential in.

Celine: I didn't, I never made all those connections, so thank you so much. I feel like you could solve the world's problems all on your own. That's so great.

Veronica: No.

Celine: No, seriously, thank you for your time here today.

Veronica: Okay, thank you.

Celine: I would love to end with a few quick questions, just to let people get to know you a little bit more personally.

Veronica: Sure.

Celine: You ready for them?

Veronica: I'm ready.

Celine: It's called the Fast Five. Okay, so first question. Favorite restaurant in Toronto, and what's your order?

Veronica: Okay, so favorite restaurant in Toronto—I'm going to go with a childhood favorite. It was Terroni and still is Terroni. Remember the old one on Queen Street that had only like a couple seats?

Celine: Yes, I do.

Veronica: And my order would likely be calamari or pizza, some combination of the two.

Celine: I'm a carb girl, so the pizza definitely got me. What's the first thing you do in the morning?

Veronica: Always quiet time. So I wake up before everybody in the house and have my coffee before everybody wakes up. And sometimes that only lasts for five minutes, but I'll take it.

Celine: Do you have a lot of people in the house?

Veronica: Yes, family of four, two kids, husband. (laughs)

Celine: Nice. Lovely, lovely. The last thing you do at night?

Veronica: I say goodnight to my kids. Give them a hug and give them a kiss.

Celine: You have 48 hours to go anywhere in the world you want. Where do you go? What do you do? And who do you bring with you?

Veronica: Okay, so I bring—oh, easy answer for me. I go to Italy, I think, for the food, for the family connections, for just the childhood memories that I have there. And I bring my family, my kids and my husband, so that they can see everything that I got to enjoy as a kid.

Celine: I love that. Whereabouts in Italy?

Veronica: I spend a lot of time in the south, but I love every part of Italy. Everything about it brings back memories—the ice cream, the cappuccino and cornetto from the bakeries in the morning. There's a lot there that I see.

Celine: Sounds idyllic.

Veronica: Yeah.

Celine: So, you're in Italy.

Veronica: Okay.

Celine: Favorite restaurant, and what is your order?

Veronica: Mm, I don't know that I have a favorite. I probably—favorite food to eat would be something cooked by my cousins there. A beautiful pasta shared at a beautiful family table. And that would be Italy for me.

Celine: Thank you, Veronica.

Veronica: You're welcome.