The Pension Blueprint podcast video transcript

Episode 8: Your pension in mid-life

Jackie DeSouza: Hello and welcome back to season two of The Pension Blueprint. I'm Jackie DeSouza and I lead OMERS Pension Communications and Engagement team. And in this episode, I'm going to be speaking with one of my colleagues, Martin Diokno. Martin is the manager of OMERS Pension Education and Relationship Management team. He's been with OMERS for 17 years and his current position has him traveling throughout Ontario, leading a team and giving presentations to members and employers about their pension plan. So he has a keen sense of what our members are thinking about as their retirements approach. Suffice to say he's seen changes to how people are thinking about retirement and their pensions in the time he's been with OMERS. One of the focuses of our conversation is on members who are in the middle of their careers, juggling a lot of the responsibilities that come with that stage of life, which many of our members will relate to. So let's check it out. Martin, thanks for joining us again on The Pension Blueprint.  

Martin Diokno: Thank you very much for having me again, Jackie.  

Jackie DeSouza: This is your second time on our podcast. You were also a guest last year. This year we're talking about your pension in mid-life and it's an interesting topic and you have an interesting job. You are the manager of the Pension Education and Relationship Management team. It's quite a mouthful. Also a big job, because you and your team go out on the road and deliver pension training and education to our members and employers across the province. So tell us a little bit about your role and what you're hearing from members on the road these days.  

Martin Diokno: It's pretty much what you said, Jackie. So I have the privilege of managing a really good team that gets to go around the province. We get to connect with our members, we work with our employers to ensure the proper administration of the plan. And it is a pretty important role at OMERS. And I'm not just saying that because I'm the manager there, it's because a lot of people have, don't really fully understand the pension. So we're a bit of translators. We kind of turn this complex pension language into English and it's important for our members to understand what this plan is all about and what it means to them. You know, I've worked for OMERS for about 17 years. The questions have been pretty consistent throughout in the sense that people want to know when they're going to retire or when they can retire, that is. And how much they're going to get. So a trend that I have noticed and that my team's noticed is that, over the last few years, with the way the world is today, there's more and more questions about sustainability. Is the Plan going to be there for me? And also, as people become more financially literate, they start to enquire earlier about their pension and retirement as a whole. So we're getting a lot more questions about that.  

Jackie DeSouza: That's really interesting. And how do you reassure them that the Plan will be there for them in the long term when they retire and for the rest of their lives? 

Martin Diokno: So what a lot of people don't understand is just the concept of the pension in general. Something that's very important in people understanding how the Pension Plan's going to be for them is understanding how we invest the money to ensure the sustainability of the Plan. A lot of people don't understand that we're not paying pensions through the contributions, solely through the contributions that they've put in and what their employers matched. There's a lot in the investment strategy and I'm sure you probably have a guest that can probably speak a lot better to the investment strategies. But a lot of our members would be very proud when they understand how we're investing to ensure that we are able to pay the Pension Plan.  

Jackie DeSouza: Yeah, that's great. We actually have a separate episode in which we speak to a couple of members of our investment teams who explain how they take those contributions and then invest them to be able to create those returns for the long term for our members. So Martin, you said you've been with OMERS for 17 years, so there must have been some changes over those years or some shifts in the type of questions that you're getting from members. Can you tell us a little bit about what you and your team are seeing on the road?  

Martin Diokno: Yeah, definitely. And we did talk a little bit about it earlier in the sense that there's the general questions of when can I retire? How much am I going to get? But there's definitely more and more people coming in later on in their careers. Some of the times it's their second, their third or even their fourth careers. A lot of their questions really are tailored around ensuring that they're not missing anything and that they're kind of maximizing what they can. Before when I would first be on the road, we'd go do these presentations and it'd be even respectfully an older crowd. Nowadays, more and more we're seeing younger and younger people come out to learn about the Plan. And when I say younger, that could be a 40-year-old where historically they wouldn't have been there. And then that's kind of where we have the conversations about “how can I catch up? What can I do now that I'm in this plan? What are the benefits to it?” Because they all kind of try to have to figure out how it fits into the overall retirement puzzle for them. And it will differ from someone who started when they were 20 and they will definitely get to go at 55, right? And it's going to be different, but we have a lot of people starting a lot later in their careers, right? “A 60-year-old, how long can I contribute into the plan? Is there a limit? Do I have to collect? What happens if I collect my government sources? How does that impact my OMERS Pension?” So these are a little bit different questions, but it always ties back to this is the OMERS benefit. These are your options on how you can increase your pension and these are some things that you want to be aware of as you move along in your retirement journey. 

Jackie DeSouza Right, no, that's really good. And I know you and your team answer these questions all the time, so if people are interested, they can go to our website, omers.com, sign up for some of your webinars, and we let people know when they're going to be in their area and they can sign up for an in-person seminar as well, or through their employers or unions as well, right? Because you do sessions through some of the major unions. And for Pensions, many people may not know this, but our North Star is to be the most trusted partner with our members along their pension journey. I mean, it's just that everyone's pension journey is different.  

Martin Diokno: So we also try to tell people, don't compare yourselves. But something that I do let my team know and remind them is that when we're on the road, we're there to instill trust with the members as far as feeling comfortable that they understand their pension. We're fortunate where we don't have anything to sell. We're not trying to sell you anything. We're trying to ensure that you understand what your options are and bring awareness to them.  

Jackie DeSouza: So Martin, you and I are both Gen Xers, kind of at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm a little bit older than you are. So we know that the stats aren't great for Gen Xers when it comes to saving for retirement. On average, people in the Generation X demographic have about $40,000 saved for retirement. What are the concerns that they would have, and how would you address them for people in this age group around saving for retirement if they're not there yet, if they don't have a pension plan like you and I do, and our 600,000 members do?  

Martin Diokno: We are fortunate to be part of the Plan and have a pension like OMERS, but not everyone is in that scenario. What I'd say is, life is not easy as it is. There's a lot of challenges. And as you prepare for your retirement, what you need to know is that it's never too early. And a little is not always a little, it may be a little now, but if you, the earlier you start, the more you're aware, the more you understand what you truly want in life and in retirement, the better prepared you're going to be when the time does come. There are a lot of financial tools that can help you towards your retirement goals. Something that, again, I keep coming back to our members, but a lot of our members even they look to, if they're ever going to change jobs, they even look to stay with another OMERS employer because they do understand the type of pension plan that they have. So what I'd say, I guess that the two key points there are, it's never too early to start thinking about retirement and really try to define your goals because that will help you in your planning. And that's very important. Because a lot of times people think, "Oh, retirement, at 65 I'm going to be retired." You meet a lot of 65-year-olds out there and they are acting younger than I am. And it's great, I love seeing that.  

Jackie DeSouza: That's awesome. 

Martin Diokno: But that's all really part of the retirement planning.  

Jackie DeSouza: Right, and that is a trend nowadays, right? People are living longer, people are working longer. So it's interesting that you're getting that because I worked in government for many years and we had a pension plan as well and people knew their numbers down to the day when they could retire and start collecting their pension. Are you seeing that as well? Where you still have people who come up and say, "You know, if I only work for another this many years or this many months, I can retire on this date." 

Martin Diokno: Yeah, I mean, that still happens. It's still happens a lot. I joke with my team that I'm going to create a retirement clock and that'll sell out real fast because it'll show how many days, hours, minutes until you can actually retire.  

Jackie DeSouza: That's great, I love that idea of the retirement clock. It could be a bestseller for OMERS. That could be great. So you did allude to times are challenging right now. Inflation is high, interest rates are high, people are struggling to buy a home, grocery costs are high. So in this type of an environment, this economic environment right now, how do you help people stay positive about saving for retirement or that sort of landscape in the future?  

Martin Diokno: It is sometimes tough to stay positive. We go through ups and downs in life. And fortunately for OMERS members, one of the things OMERS members, one of the things that I do let them know is that one of the beauties of having a pension like OMERS is that it kind of takes the unknown and the uncertainty away. OMERS is a defined benefit plan. So what that means in English is, today you can accurately predict what you potentially will get when you do retire with assuming you keep on going on a regular career path. So there is room for positivity. We're very fortunate in general, right? We live in Canada, we have a great pension. So yeah, that's kind of where I kind of let people know you're doing great, you're doing the best you can, keep going. And usually by the very nature of me talking to someone in the Plan, it means that they're taking the steps to better understand so they're already on the right track.  

Jackie DeSouza: Yeah, that's great. You're right because they come out to the seminars or they participate in the webinars, they're asking questions as opposed to those who don't ask any questions and may not necessarily understand what this Plan is all about. Because there are tons of benefits with a plan like this.  

Martin Diokno: Yeah, exactly. A lot of times too, when we're on the road, I'm talking to someone who's getting close to retirement and they say, "Martin, I wish I had a time machine and I could have talked to you five years ago, 10 years ago." Because there's just a lot of intricacies with the Pension Plan that it's important for people to understand as soon as they can because there are some implications and time sensitivities with your pension that are beneficial to members. 

Jackie DeSouza: Right, can you mention what some of those are? 

Martin Diokno: Good example of that would be buying back service. And I'm not saying to buy back service, you know. Often buybacks are worth it and often they're not. You have to do what's right for you and your family. But buybacks do get more expensive the older you get, the closer you are to retirement; hopefully you're making more than when you first started your career. So a lot of times if people had known about buybacks maybe a little bit sooner, they could have taken the necessary steps, at least looked into it.  

Jackie DeSouza: Right, and a buyback is your buying back time when you worked for an OMERS employer, but that wasn't sort of pensionable credited service.  

Martin Diokno: Yes, exactly. Sorry, I should have, yeah...  

Jackie DeSouza: It's okay, it's okay. 

Martin Diokno: I just assume sometimes. Yeah, exactly. Increasing your credited service and ultimately that's one of the factors in determining how much you're going to get when it's all said and done from OMERS.  

Jackie DeSouza: Right, right. So there's the buybacks. Is there anything else that members need to think about?  

Martin Diokno: Yeah, there's tons of things. AVCs - Additional Voluntary Contributions. It's a way that OMERS helps members towards their retirement goals as well. It's completely optional. It's kind of like having an RRSP with OMERS and what's nice about is that gives normal people like myself and yourself the ability to invest in the same investments that a multi-billion dollar fund has access to in commerce.  

Jackie DeSouza: Right, right. Which is a really great option for some people. So Martin, research shows that building that safety net and having that retirement income is a top goal of millennials and Generation X demographics. However, not many have actually done that. They say they prioritize it, but they're not actually doing it. So why do you think that disconnect exists?  

Martin Diokno: It's a pretty big disconnect actually. And I'm not pointing fingers because I'm definitely part of that group as well. People understand or are starting to understand the importance of savings and planning for retirement, but then life gets in the way. Especially for this group, mid-life, like you had mentioned, housing, career changes, maybe starting families. I do have a young family. I have two young kids under the age of four. I recently bought a house. So I'm very fortunate. I'm very thankful for that. I know there's a lot of responsibilities with it and I have a very supporting wife who, I don't know how I found her but I did. We still have a lot of the regular challenges though. A big thing for me, and I'll be completely honest, Jackie, is that I work for OMERS so I understand the importance of it, or I understood at a younger age. If I didn't work for OMERS or never did, I don't think I would be in that same boat. A lot of it is awareness too. Prioritizing time to learn about it is important. And we talked a bit about earlier about what my team does. We have an hour and a half session at 5:30, it's maybe sometimes a tough sell for our group. Okay, work your whole day. Come learn about pensions, which is a super exciting topic! And you're going to be there for two hours. But when we do get people out, they learn a lot about it. So, I don't know, maybe that's an unnecessary plug for my team to come out. But it is important that people do that.  

Jackie DeSouza: Yeah, it's a really important point because people generally are afraid of learning about their finances or learning about budgeting. So how do you make it easy for people to learn about these types of concepts? Like you said, that could be very complicated.  

Martin Diokno: Yeah, one of our team's goals is really to increase the reach to our membership and ensure that the interactions are impactful. We're always, always trying to evolve and do things better and do things in a way that our members want to digest it and are capable of it. So we have our regular information sessions. I feel like the in-person ones are usually the best. In the end, we are still humans and there's that human connection that really adds to the element of teaching. And then there's also the, it's a bit polarizing when you're in a room with a bunch of your colleagues or peers who are also there to learn about the pension. And often you'll hear a question that you may not have even thought to ask. So we have our regular sessions like that. We have our one-on-ones. Something that did come from COVID is that people became more comfortable with online. So we are hosting more and more webinars. And what we're finding too is that we're cutting down the webinars in size, but increasing the frequency and kind of narrowing down the topics a little bit more. Because it is, like we say, we said many times, life's hard. Maybe you don't have a full hour, but maybe you have a half hour set aside. And then a lot of the work we do is in conjunction with your team and the great work is getting the word out to our members, right? The more people become aware, the newsletters that you guys do, that's all helping towards the education and it's bringing awareness that, hey, there are these educational tools that are available. In addition to that, myOMERS site, I mean, it's kind of like online banking for your pension. It's getting better and better every year. And it's getting better through a lot of feedback through our members. Letting us know what works, what isn't working, and what they'd like to see.  

Jackie DeSouza: No, and that's great and thanks for mentioning that. I think our teams do work well in partnership. I run our communications team at OMERS, so we do all the communications for our members, employers, and our stakeholders. And a lot of it is actually using the content that your team delivers to our members to share that information online or via newsletters or emails to members and all of that. It's really important, I guess, any way that a member can learn more about their pension is the right way, right for them. I've heard you talk before about sort of looking at the big picture and setting your retirement goals from there. So can you tell us in a little more detail about what that might look like and what that big picture is?  

Martin Diokno: The big picture is not just what day can I retire? The big picture is when are you ready to retire? And I mean, ready to retire. I use my dad as an example. He had a date in mind, he retired. For the next 30 days, he harassed me and my mom every single day. What are you doing?".  "Pa, what do you think I'm doing? I'm working." He wasn't ready to go. He didn't see the big picture in that sense. And I'm not knocking my dad, I'm very thankful for everything he's done for me. But (laughs) the big picture is take a look at what you want to do, what you need to do financially, socially. You used to work 40 hours a week, 50 hours, some people work 60 hours, 30 hours, whatever it is, how are you going to replace that? And not, how are you going to replace that in two months? How are you going to replace that for the year? Have a plan, take a look at the big picture in the sense that we have our OMERS pension. We're, again, we're a fortunate group to have. But it's not just your OMERS pension. You might have other types of retirement savings that you've done. There's some government sources that you definitely want to look into as well and educate yourself on what those figures are as well. Because a lot of people are pretty surprised when they see what those numbers are. And then how are you going to maintain your happiness?  

Jackie DeSouza: That's a really good point. Because we are not just saving for retirement financially, right? There's all sorts of other things you need to think about too. For a lot of people, their social network is the workplace. So I guess how are you going to replace that social network as well so that you are, like you said, happy in retirement?  

Martin Diokno: A lot of times people will come down and sit with me and they'll say, "Martin, when should I go?" And my first answer to them, and I don't mean this sarcastically, is “what are you going to do if you go?” And if they don't have a good answer for that, then you know, we kind of work our way from there.  

Jackie DeSouza: So Martin, I know you've been with the Plan for 17 years and always in a member facing role. What keeps you interested in this role?  

Martin Diokno: What I really like about my role is that every day is different and we get to work directly with the people that I truly work for. When we do our presentations, I always like to bring awareness of why OMERS exists. One of the nice things that I really like about, it's that we're part of the social fabric of Ontario. We make an impact here. And when you look at who we serve, those are our friends, our family members, our neighbours, the people who serve our own communities. Part of what I really like about my job and my team would fully agree is that we're making an impact at home and every day is different. And the best thing, the best thing about my job is after talking to someone and there's that aha moment or that thank you moment of, Thank you, you know what? I was a little bit nervous before. Now I'm more comfortable. I might have some homework to do because they-  

Jackie DeSouza: Sure, yeah (laughs) 

Martin Diokno: You know, they learn too, but they're in a lot better place. And I don't mean financially, but a lot better place mentally of how they're going to approach retirement. And that's very, very satisfying part of my job.  

Jackie DeSouza: Yeah, that's wonderful. That's a privilege to be able to do that for our members.  

Martin Diokno: And actually one other really cool thing about our job is that we hear directly from the members. And it's not like we have those conversations, we just keep it to ourselves. And if there's great suggestions or comments, that's where we have the privilege of actually bringing those insights and feelings up. We get to, I'll have conversations with you or my AD or our SVPs, very open and receptive to getting that true feedback from our members. So that's kind of a really cool thing where we can kind of help get the messaging from our membership to some of the decision makers at OMERS to ensure that we're doing things the way our members would like it.  

Jackie DeSouza: Yeah, that's really important. Thanks for mentioning that. Because you're right, I mean, I've been able to go to some Board meetings as well and that's often one of the questions, “What are our members saying? What are our members thinking?” It kind of permeates the organization. And it's so wonderful that your team is the conduit to all of that. You and your team are terrific ambassadors for OMERS. So thank you very much for being here today.  

Martin Diokno: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure as always.